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Manga Art (MA): Tell us why Shueisha's Photo and Lab Section decided to use cameras from Phase One?
Koyanagi: From around 2000 we began to capture Manga original drawings into digital data. At that time, we were using a flatbed scanner called Ever Smart Supreme II from CREO. While it was a very high-end model, as we needed to convert ever increasing amounts of original Manga drawings into data, we eventually started to use two of these flatbed scanners from around 2002.
We used these scanners for about 15 years, but in 2015 support for Ever Smart ended. At that point I felt there was a limit to the quality that could be captured through scanned images. A scanner shines light on the Manga drawing and converts it into data with an image sensor, which makes it difficult to capture subtle hues due to the reflected white light. Once scanned, even after adjusting the scan with Photoshop, certain tonal qualities cannot be captured. It was especially difficult to reproduce the pale tones of Girls' or Shôjô Manga drawings that used color. When I was facing these challenges, I discovered on the Internet Phase One’s DT RGC180 and RCam/ IQ180 system, and thought it might be the solution.
MA: I believe it wasn't that long ago that the method of capturing manuscripts switched from scanners to cameras. What was the situation with Phase One in the 2000s?
Shimoda: In the 2000s, scanner-type cameras were the mainstream and were used a great deal by printing companies. Then came cameras that took pictures with a single shutter and immediately imported them to computer. Those cameras were first developed with 6 million pixels, then 11 million pixels, then 16 million pixels, and by the time they reached 22 million pixels, they came into common use. At that time, typical digital SLR (single-lens reflex) cameras were in the 8 to 11 million pixels class, so Phase One was adopted them because of the higher pixel count.
MA: Was it unusual for publishers to introduce this type of technology when the Photo and Lab Section of Shueisha began to use Phase One cameras?
Shimoda: I think Shueisha is a pioneering company in publishing. Currently, our systems are often used for shooting advertisements, while in the archival field, they are used for capturing cultural assets at museums and libraries.
MA: Are they commonly used in museums?
Shimoda: Yes. Our system is used in museums all over the world, including Japan.
MA: It is a Danish company, right? Do you feel that your systems started to spread from around Europe? Or at the same time in various parts of the world?
Shimoda: I think it was at the same time. Since then we have been focusing on cultural heritage, and I think of our company as not only as the camera but rather as the solution, that is, a total system for taking pictures to meet the needs of the market. There are only a few companies that offer entire systems, from copy stand to the camera. In that sense, our product is a well-established system that is rather unique.
MA: Do you offer a total solution including not just the camera, but also the shooting stand, lighting, and digital system for capturing images?
Shimoda: The DT RGC180 and RCam/ IQ180 consists of a copy stand and a mounting base for the Phase One image sensor and Schneider Kreuznach lens with attached LED lighting.
MA: What was your impression when you first took pictures with Phase One cameras in the Photo and Lab Section?
Koyanagi: I was impressed that the ground texture of paper came out very beautifully. Art paper in general is embossed when enlarged and the texture can be seen visually. Normal scanners can only capture color information and not these textures. Using Phase One, however, the textures remain intact. It was wonderful to see these textures so clearly preserved through photography.
However, the DT RGC180 and RCam/ IQ180 system at the time had a similar structure to that of large format cameras of a long ago, with an image sensor and a lens shutter so it was difficult to manually focus each time. In 2018, we improved the process and introduced the iXG camera system with an autofocus function, which made our work much more efficient.
Shimoda: When your company first installed our iXG camera system, the sensor then was a CCD type, and the live view function required the user to focus frame by frame while viewing the image, so it might have been challenging to focus. Now, that the sensor is a new type called CMOS, it is possible to focus quite smoothly while using live view. In addition, the system now has an autofocus function, so users can focus both efficiently and accurately.
MA: I believe that cameras with high pixel counts are evolving day by day. What is the biggest difference between Phase One's cameras and those in other companies?
Shimoda: I believe the biggest difference is extremely high image quality of Phase One’s cameras. Even with new cameras being issued all the time, there are still companies taking advertising photos with our cameras that were purchased 10 years ago. This demonstrates that even if our cameras are 10 years old, they are still capable of meeting the current day’s quality requirements. As Mr. Koyanagi mentioned, these cameras can faithfully reproduce delicate expressions such as pale details. This is one of the the special characteristics of Phase One.
MA: I think the size of Phase One’s sensor that receives the image is quite large when compared to other cameras. Just how big is the size of the sensor compared to other models available today?
Shimoda: I think the 645 film-size sensor in Phase One is the largest among commonly available cameras. It is not simply the number of pixels available, but also the size of each sensor element that is important.
MA: I heard that even if the number of camera pixels is quite large, the quality of a picture can be compromised if the photosensitive lens is small. Can you explain this in an easy to understand manner?
Shimoda: For example, even with the same 6-millionpixel camera, the size of each sensor element differs depending on the size of the image sensor. In other words, the detail and color reproduction rate changes greatly depending on the amount of information that can be received through light. Therefore not only a high number of pixels but also a large light-receiving area is important for achieving high quality images.
In addition, typical data volume is 8 or 14 bits, but with Phase One, it becomes 16 bits. The difference is that 16-bit data can handle around 280 trillion colors, while 14 bits handles 400 billion colors. The depth of color is surprisingly different as a result.
Shimoda: Furthermore, cameras made for Shueisha have an entirely different shape when compared with general cameras. We have customized the design and structure of the camera to make it exclusively for use in copying in order to realize the high-precision results that meet the demands of our customers.
I was surprised to find out that when the engineer of the iXG camera system visited Shueisha that he had been involved in the development of the earlier scanner at Shueisha.
Koyanagi: Yes! I remember he said, “I developed this scanner myself," and he happily took a picture of it.
Shimoda: We understand the advantages of flatbed scanners and how also great products can be developed with contemporary technology from both perspectives.
Koyanagi: Since the cameras and scanners were developed with a similar perspective, we decided to install the iXG camera system immediately after it was released.
MA: In terms of speed, I think the iXG has a higher productivity rate than that of a conventional scanner. Is this the case?
Koyanagi: I have had many opportunities to re-take past masterworks. With a scanner, it takes a long time to create high-resolution data, but when shooting with a camera, it's over in an instant, and I am grateful for this.
MA: And now, I would like to show Mr Shimoda some real “Manga Art" pictures.
Shimoda: This is the real thing! Wow, this is amazing.
Koyanagi: This is an original color drawing from "One Piece" published in "Weekly Shonen Jump".
MA: With this "Manga Art" print enlarged from the original drawing size, you can see the details that couldn't have been seen before.
Shimoda: The impact is totally different!
Koyanagi: "The Rose of Versailles" was scanned at the Photo and Lab Section in 2008, but this time we borrowed the original drawings from Riyoko Ikeda Productions and photographed it with Phase One. Many Shôjô Manga (Manga for girls) artists spend a great deal of time drawing detailed pictures on a large size screen.
MA: With the newly taken image, we restore and retouch them based on the colors of the scanned images and the image at the original time of publication, and then we print them.
Shimoda: It's wonderful to see printed drawings of this size in such high quality, and I am honored that the Phase One system has helped you.
Edited by Aya Okamura
